To forgive is divine … maybe
I have been thinking about forgiveness.
In part because we just passed International Forgiveness Day (did you know that even existed, or is that an “Only in Marin” kinda thing?) and because of a posting by Big Little Wolf’s Daily Plate of Crazy that elicited some comments (including by yours truly).
You can read it for yourself (and you should), but I was taken by something Big Little Wolf (whom I respect a lot) said:
“forgiveness is possible if you’re talking about someone who is dead, or long gone, or who ceases to threaten or hurt. When you find yourself still in the heat of it after years, it isn’t about forgiveness. It’s about protecting your children from the source of the ongoing manipulation and harmful acts. It’s about survival. These aren’t past actions we’re talking about. This is the present for some of us. A present that lasts for many years, and with no end in sight.”
When I brought up the concept of forgiveness, Mindy Single Mom added this:
“being told things along the lines of “forgiveness will set you free” seems condescending. … Forgiving and thinking positive is not a solution under these circumstances but finding a way to end it would be, and that starts by discussing it and gaining some understanding of the problem.”
Sure; a 
lot of people have a lot of things much worse than I have — or have ever had — in my life. And, yes, speaking the truth — and fighting for it — is essential.
Focusing just on forgiveness, I wonder if that is so, that we can only forgive someone who
harms us if the harming is in the past, not a constant present. And if forgiveness is indeed condescending. I wonder if forgiveness is
one of those situational things; you know, you’re anti-abortion and then your teenaged daughter gets knocked up by a rapist,
you’re anti-death penalty and then your fiance gets murdered.
I tend to think it’s not.
If you read the stories of some of the “heroes” of International Forgiveness Day,” it does make you pause.
I know what the Bible says about forgiveness, but without getting all religious on you (which I’m not; hey, I’m from NorCal, so I’m “spiritual, not religious”), everything I know about forgiveness is to set the person being hurt free from having to carry the burden of anger against those harming him or her.
What I understand about forgiveness is that:
- Forgiveness doesn’t excuse anyone.
- Forgiveness doesn’t mean we’re ignoring or denying anything.
- Forgiveness doesn’t mean accepting bad behavior as “right.”
- Forgiveness doesn’t mean we’re giving someone a “buy” or that he/she’s “off the hook.”
- Forgiveness doesn’t mean that we can use it as a weapon, hanging bad behavior over someone’s head forever.
No — forgiveness means that we are stop thinking of ourselves as a “victim” (even if things totally suck) and start taking control of our emotions and choosing to start the healing on our own. Because, you know, ain’t no one else who’s going to do it for for us … and no one else can.
Not that this is a reason to feel forgiveness, but nothing pisses someone off more than when you don’t allow yourself to react to his/her bad shit.
If we don’t buy into the hurt that people want to hurl at us, well, what recourse do they have?
Exactly.
The only one who suffers is the one doing the hurting.
And, maybe, that person will find compassion … and stop.
I think of Leonard Cohen’s words:
Like a bird on the wire
like a drunk in a midnight choir
I have tried in my way to be free …
If I, if I have been unkind
I hope that you can just let it go by.
If I, if I have been untrue
I hope you know it was never to you.
- Is forgiveness only for events that have happened in the past?
- Have you struggled with forgiveness?
- Do you only forgive when someone asks to be forgiven?
- Have you asked for forgiveness, and not gotten it?
Photo © Lars Lachmann — Fotolia.com.
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Twitter: dadshouseblog
says:
When you forgive someone, you are saying “you were wrong, but it’s okay now.” There’s a lot of judgment in that.
Instead, how about just letting go of the hatred. If they treat you poorly, you can let it roll off your back. Don’t let it phase you. Send them compassion. You genuinely don’t want them to suffer.
Because they must be suffering, else why would they lash out against you?
Great post Kat. So many people seem to misunderstand the concept of forgiveness, thinking it is about the forgivee but as you explain well, it is mostly for the sake of the forgiver.
With that in mind, it is *most* important to apply forgiveness in present situations. It means when your ex is being an a-hole in a way that badly impacts your kids you “forgive” him (he can’t help that he’s an a-hole) in order to not get your brain tied up in knots. It’s not always easy and you still are going to have to have confrontations to make sure he really does pick up the kids when he says he’s gonna or whatever but when you get off the phone you forgive him so as to not let it ruin your night. Not always easy by any means but you should always try.
Twitter: momma_sunshine
says:
I think that most people misunderstand the concept of forgiveness. Forgiveness is for the person DOING the forgiving, *not* for the person forgiveness is being extended to. As you said, it’s about beginning the healing process ON OUR OWN. It’s about not allowing someone else control our thoughts and our feelings. Forgiveness doesn’t mean that I’m ever going to want to be in the same room with you again – it just means that I’m not going to allow you to affect my life negatively anymore.
That said, I do still struggle with forgiveness. I sometimes need to send myself a very strong reminder of WHY I’m forgiving in the first place…
Great post!
Momma Sunshine´s last [type] ..Milestone
Forgiveness is something you do for yourself, a selfish act. You do it so you don’t suffer from feeling the anger anymore.
I have some things I am still angry about decades later and probably will be for life, so I know where MSM’s feelings are coming from.
Steve´s last [type] ..Not Original- Carnist Bingo
Twitter: tsquest
says:
I LOVE this post, Kat. Yes! Agreed!
Sure, forgiveness is more of a challenge when it becomes forgiving something that was your biggest fear. That is also when it is the most necessary!!
Didn’t the Buddha say something about anger being similar to drinking the poison you meant for someone else?
It was absolutely essential for me to forgive my husband DURING our separation and divorce. I also forgave my father during that same time… though I was still frustrated with the both of them. Forgiving was an ongoing choice – not an overlooking of some past sin. And because I stopped reacting in attack/defense mode (writing a post about that to go up in about an hour or so), their actions changed as well.
Good stuff here!
T´s last [type] ..Work in progress
Not “forgiving” someone who wishes to cause you harm with the intent of eventually breaking you doesn’t mean you are making yourself a victim. It’s not even ABOUT forgivness. What does forgiviness have to do with acknowledging there’s someone in your life who makes it their mission to cause you harm?
I don’t ALLOW my ex to cause me harm or consider myself his “victim” but I DO have to deal with the reality that the things he does are destructive to my life, as they are intended to be. Reacting isn’t a choice, it’s a neccessity to survival. “Forgiving” or thinking positive does not make the problem go away nor does it change the fact that I must take action to defend myself, my life, my livilihood and my kids best interests. Forgiveness is simply irrelevant in this situation.
You said, “If we don’t buy into the hurt that people want to hurl at us, well, what recourse do they have?”
What they have is a legal system that supports malicious and frivilous legal actions and the lawyers who benefit from it and allow it to continue.
Should I not “buy into” the fact that, as a direct result of my ex’s actions, I am losing my house, have lost my excellent credit, faced criminal charges, spent a whole lot of time, energy and money, not to mention the parenting challenges I have and do face – are all things that without his self-serving and malicious acts against me wouldn’t even exist? Or that it hurts that I should even have to go through this time and time again? Or that justice continues to be denied?
“The only one who suffers is the one doing the hurting”. Yeah, I’m hurting. I’d rather not spend so much of my time and energy just trying to survive and do damage control. For eight years I’ve tried to rebuild my life after divorce but my ex does not want to make that easy for me, and he hasn’t. Doesn’t mean I’m not doing everyhing in my power to keep living the best life possible but “forgiving” him for being such an asshole and causing so much damage – and continuing to do so – is not going to change a damn thing or make anything better.
Forgiveness in this particualr situation is to me, like believing in God or having faith and that it somehow makes you a better person just because you believe it or practice it. Well I don’t “buy into” that. It doesn’t mean I’m not a forgiving person, quite the contrary, it just means that forgiveness has no relevance to the situation I described above.
Mindy@SingleMomSays´s last [type] ..Five & Sweet Sixteen
Yes, if you are using “forgiveness” in the sense you outlined at the beginning. When they are sticking the knife in is the most important time to forgive. You don’t say “I forgive you” (the kind of fake forgiveness the first poster referred to)- that’s both presumptuous and not what it’s about. It’s about thinking- “You are fucked up but obviously can’t help it, and it’s your problem. I’m going to stand up for what’s right and what’s mine without anger. If you don’t aggree I’m going to go to my lawyer or the police or maybe I’ll just have to live with the unfairness if there is no recourse but oh well life isn’t always fair.”
Of course this requires a level of zen that isn’t always achievable- but always better to try than to think “I deserve to hate this person and so I’m going to take full advantage of that opportunity and hate hate hate- to forgive would be to somehow letting him off the hook.”
Twitter: mobilene
says:
Kat, I really like your take on forgiveness. I’ve had to learn something similar about it. My definition is that forgiveness is simply not requiring that damages be repaid. It’s kind of like if a roommate skipped town on me and left me with hundreds of dollars in bills. Forgiving that debt simply means I no longer require it be repaid — that I suffer the consequences.
The other thing I’ve had to learn is that forgiveness does not require reconciliation. I don’t have to let the deadbeat roommate move back in. It is okay to insist that trust be somehow rebuilt first.
I am in a situation with my ex where there was a lot of crap to forgive from the marriage and divorce, and ongoing crap to forgive as it looks from here anyway that she continues to behave toward me out of her anger. I don’t like it one bit; it causes me considerable anxiety. Frankly, sometimes she does in the present tears open some anger about the past, as it’s the same kind of nonsense I dealt with back then. This is not easy. I’m still working out how to manage it so I don’t react in ways that make the situation worse.
I wrote about forgiveness too, some time ago: http://jimgrey.wordpress.com/2008/12/18/unrightable/.
jim´s last [type] ..17 bridges in Putnam County- part 1
I just want to add that just because I don’t feel forgiveness is relevant to the situation I described it doesn’t mean I walk around angry and bitter. Do I like that my ex is allowed to continue to derail my life simply by picking up a phone and calling an attorney who will do his evil bidding for him? Of course not, nor should I. But I do accept who and what my ex is, that HE wont change AND that dealing with the consequences of his actions are a regular part of my life. Should I have to? No. I don’t accept that this should be allowed to happen or continue. Expressing my frustration at him, the legal system and his attorney is one way I can be an advocate for change.
Should slaves have been more “forgiving” of the people who made them slaves or was it more productive to speak out about how they were being treated and try to DO something to change it? Now that things HAVE changed with slavery and equality, sure, we should all forgive our ancestors for the wrongs they comitted.
Again, forgiveness just has no relevance to a situation like mine, I dont “forgive” my ex for what he does when he can simply just STOP. Then and only then will there be something TO forgive. Not holding my breath though. Meanwhile, I forgive myself for ever becoming involved with and not seeing the true nature of who that man really is much sooner.
Mindy@SingleMomSays´s last [type] ..Five & Sweet Sixteen
Twitter: youshouldknowca
says:
Can you really feel #forgiveness for someone who's still treating you like crap? http://katwilder.com/?p=2544
Twitter: BigLittleWolf
says:
Thanks for the link love, Kat.
I think it’s easy to talk about forgiveness in the abstract. I think most of us seek to grant forgiveness, because we’re well aware that the world flows better without the negative energy that surrounds those who carry grudges and resentments.
The situation and context in which the issue of forgiveness was raised is quite specific – long term, malicious, and pervasive disregard for the law, and for the well-being of others.
Turn the other cheek may sound great in theory, but who but a crazy person would stand and not defend himself or herself against a constant barrage? And more so – when the barrage is levied at your kids?
As Mindy said – forgiveness is irrelevant. It’s not even in the discussion. It’s about defense, not offense – and survival on a wearying battlefield that most of us would gladly give up. But not if the price is the welfare of our children.
BigLittleWolf´s last [type] ..News
Twitter: youshouldknowca
says:
Can we forgive someone for harming us in the past if he/she continues to harm us? http://bit.ly/dnnZvp (via @KatWilder)
Twitter: KatWilder
says:
Dads — Not to be disagreeable (and please forgive me for that), but I don’t necessarily agree that forgiving someone means, “you were wrong, but it’s okay now.” If I feel hurt by someone’s actions, say an affair, it doesn’t mean that someone was wrong (although, sure, many would say having an affair is “wrong”) not does it say all is OK. It just means I acknowledge that I felt hurt by someone’s actions, and I am ready to move past that (not “forgive and forget”; I won’t forget some hurts but I will chose not to let them control my life and actions now and in the future. It’s never OK for someone to hurt another person, yet we all know that happens. What we choose to do after that is up to us.
A Dude — (and, you are!) Gotta agree with you when you say “With that in mind, it is *most* important to apply forgiveness in present situations.” Like some of my exercise teachers have said — when it hurts and you want to give up, that’s exactly when you push yourself. Hate that!
Momma Sunshine — I would never say forgiveness is easy; questioning why we’re forgiving is actually essential to the process. Because if we’re the type who easily forgives because it’s the path of least resistance .., uh, not OK!! We have to know what we’re forgiving, and why.
Steve — I don’t think you’re alone in that. There are many things we struggle with; I have, too. I don’t see that as a “bad” thing, just “a” thing we do. Part of the human condition. And, you know, maybe that’s a good thing …
T — I absolutely knew you’d either addressed this or were about to address this or was certainly thinking about this .. because you’re a “thinker,” too. Coming on the heels of what I said to Steve, it’s part of the human condition. Fine, I’m OK with that; bring it on! I just look at it as my brain synapses being refired …
When my Ex and I divorced, we were going to do it ourselves and not try and hurt the other. We just came to the conclusion that we needed to move on. Then she started talking to a lawyer. That’s when things got ugly. It turned out, that her mother and her worked out our divorce even before we were married, right down to how to screw me out of the money that I would get from selling our house. They had it all worked out. When we met in arbitration, she presented a paper that I signed 2 days before our wedding signing the house over to her. Her mother’s Money Manager slipped it in without my knowledge and having never bought a house before, I trusted them, after all, I loved her and trusted her. After the divorce, I got almost nothing even though I paid all the bills… it took a LONG time to not want to cause her pain… One day, after meditation, I went to her and I forgave her for what she did. Not for her, but for me. Ever since then, It released the power and the anger and I feel so much better for doing it. She no longer controlled my thoughts… Such a relief!
Forgiveness heals the heart and mind…
KC´s last [type] ..Missing my kids
Twitter: youshouldknowca
says:
RT @TopsyRT: Kat Wilder » To forgive is divine %u2026 maybe http://bit.ly/dnnZvp
Twitter: KatWilder
says:
Mindy — What does forgiveness have to do with acknowledging there’s someone in your life who makes it their mission to cause you harm? There will always be people who will try to hurt us, intentionally and unintentionally. And without even knowing your situation fully, it sounds as if your former husband is very intentionally trying to hurt you, and is spending money and using the legal system to help him. Of course you have to take actions to protect yourself and your children. And, of course you should speak out about the world’s injustices in hopes of effecting change. And, of course, you can express frustrations.
That, however, is not what forgiveness is about. All those things can happen at the same time that you experience forgiveness, and free yourself from being emotionally entangled in the muck.
The most important lesson I ever learned from a shrink is, We can’t control other people’s actions; we can only control how we react to them. Forgiveness actually does let us live a happier, healthier life … even while the world is raging around us.
I do hope that the situations for you and BLW and your kids change for the better … FAST!
Jim — Ah! You bring up a great point, reconciliation. That’s exactly what I experienced in my divorce. It upset my kid because he didn’t understand — how can there be forgiveness and we’re not all one happy family again? Forgiveness doesn’t mean that you must continue to put yourself in an unhappy situation. I mean, we don’t have to be damn fools about it!
BLW — Again, it sounds as if your and Mindy’s situation is hellacious. Can’t say I have been in something like that, so perhaps I am out of line in presuming how I’d feel.
But, I am viewing forgiveness like this — to me, when people hurt us is no different than if we get a terminal illness, say cancer. Why do these things happen? I don’t know, but they do. It isn’t fair or right, and yet the world is full of horrible things that we have to deal with. How do we handle it? How do we find the strength to continue? We go around protecting ourselves and our loved ones as much as possible, and surviving as best we can. We can live in constant anger at our disease, and we have a right to be angry. It sucks. We don’t deserve it. But, this is what we have anyway. Now what?
If I had a terminal illness, I couldn’t see living the remainder of my life in anger at my situation. That would affect how I feel about everything, and would ruin whatever time I’d have left with the people I love. That’s not how I would choose to live out my final days.
Forgiveness is the same thing. It allows us to move on emotionally (while dealing with the crap). And, I truly believe that there is no situation in which forgiveness is irrelevant.
KC — sorry about that! Anyone who thinks marriage is just about love, pay attention!!!