She says romance, he says porn
“What’s this?” I said, picking up a book from Sara’s dining table before we headed out for a gal’s night.
“What’s what?” she said from the other room, finishing putting on her “face.”
“This book on your table.”
“Oh, that’s Nora Roberts’ latest.”
“Nora Roberts? Oh, please! Isn’t she one of those sappy romance writers?”
“Uh, someone gave it to me,” Sara said somewhat defensively, surfacing from the bathroom, “face” intact. “Why?”
“I’m just surprised to see such porn in your house, that’s all.”
“What are you talking about? It’s a romance novel, not porn.”
“Same thing, baby.” 
“It is not!”
Hmm, well, I guess it depends on what you
consider porn.
Porn isn’t just a bunch of naked people having a really good time with various body parts — especially certain wonderfully super-hard and extra-huge parts — and exchanging bodily fluids until everyone’s smiling and happy after all’s said and done — although that’s certainly the kind of porn I like.
But that porn’s not for everybody. A lot of women don’t like that kind of porn because the porn babes are beautiful and have massive boobs and tight perfect butts and luscious bods, and honestly, few
of us really look like that and never will look like
that.
And, many of us aren’t going to say “give it to me, there — hard,” and really mean it.
So we tend to worry that the man we love is going
to expect us to get all Jenna Jameson on him.
But, if we gals worry about men having totally unrealistic expectations about women based on porn stars, how come men aren’t freaking out about romance novels, the kinds Nora Roberts and hundreds of other female novelists write and that thousands of women read?
Don’t they give us the same unrealistic notions about love and romance? Are they any more reality-based than, say, a Jenna Jameson film? Is a romance novel addiction (I don’t know of any 12-steps program for that, but if you buy every new title that comes out of Harlequin, I’d say, yeah, you need rehab) any better than a porn addiction — if it means a woman’s going to look at her guy and get all pissed off that he isn’t reaching for her gently, even though his muscular arms are strong and tan, letting his arms caress the small of her back as he lifts her up to his full, moist lips, never letting his gaze leave hers …
Ahem, well, where was I?
Do we women dislike porn because we’re insecure about our sexuality and beauty, and jealous of others?
OK, maybe it’s because everywhere you look, from the mass media to the Internet, you’re more likely to see porn star-like babes as the norm than, say, Fabio, and the expectation from men that we’ll look and act like them, too — and, you know, we may not want to! I know a lot of men are into porn but the sales of romance novels is a pretty close second. And, amazingly enough, even though there are more college classes on porn than there are on bodice-rippers, Yale — Yale! — offered a course on romance novels this past spring, so I wouldn’t doubt that we’ll see more.
I’m not into romance novels. Not that I have anything against romance; I love romance, love being courted, love a long seduction. Nothing is sexier than having a man want me so much that he grabs me forcefully, rips off my clothing and desires nothing more than pleasuring me for the next few hours. In fact, where is he — I’d like to him to start now!
But, is it a double standard to be OK with the unrealistic expectations of the romance novel and not porn?
- Guys, do you worry about romance novels the way women worry about porn?
- Gals, if you read romance novels, do they help your relationship or make you dissatisfied?
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Well, the thing is, women have been involved in double standards and arguments over trivial issues for so long that we men-folk just carry on with life. Any woman that gets all caught up and offended about porn, who would use the “unrealistic expectations” card and then go on to read romance novels and twilight and such, is not really one to have an intellectual debate with. the phrase “yes dear, of course you are right” is often employed here!
most men dont really give 2 hoots!
I’m going to be contrary and ask how many men have actually read a romance novel? There are definitely scenes in it that are porn, but probably less than 5% of the book usually. I personally don’t like what’s considered ‘porn’ bc there is no story, no emotional component. But I did when married tried to recreate the porn bits to make my then husband happy. But would he even touch a romance novel to do the same? Nope. And it seems most men I know wouldn’t either. To me that is a double standard.
As to insecurity about porn, yeah it can be intimidating. Both can create unrealistic expectations. Just like all other fantasies, you have to keep in mind that it is not real life!
Twitter: mobilene
says:
Many guys can look at pretty, um, dynamic porn and still be perfectly happy with their warm, real, and average-in-bed partner, and the same with women who read even the most ridiculous romance novels.
Some men and women, however, can’t keep from looking at/reading these things compulsively, and some do get mixed-up expectations from them. Such people would do well to address whatever internal issues or unmet needs are causing these problems.
I have little experience with romance novels but more experience with porn than I usually care to admit. Someone correct me if I’m wrong about this, but my impression is that romance novels as a rule don’t demean or dehumanize anyone. Unfortunately, you can’t say the same about porn. There’s so much stuff on the wrong side of that line that it’s hard to find anything that just represents two equal partners getting off, let alone something that depicts loving sex. IMHO, this is the critical difference between porn and romance novels.
jim´s last [type] ..Clattering over the old wooden bridge
Generally speaking, women use sex to get love, and men use love to get sex.
I can’t say that I have ever read a Harlequin romance, but does Earth’s Children count? I usually think of that as prehistoric porn, although the ripped abs and heaving bosoms parts were only a small portion of the total pagination. I never realized that Neanderthals were somehow lacking in endowment, if not technique. D.H. Lawrence and Anais Nin are worth spending time with, so if they count, count me in! I can’t say I’m much of an aficionado of porn, either, because there is only so much of relentless thrusting, saline implants and fake moans that I can take. The lack of much plot also leaves a lot to be desired, too.
So, to answer your questions, no. And not in my experience with any gals that I know.
Do men worry about romance novels? Not really.
Do men think of romance novels as pornography for women? Every man I’ve asked does. Even if the racy parts are not that descriptive – it’s still viewed as “girl-porn”.
Pornography provides a stylized version of sex that is more visceral, lustful and enthusiastic than is encountered in reality. Incidentally, it’s the enthusiasm for carnal pleasure from the female performers that is the most important element, IMHO.
Similarly, Romance novels provide a stylized version of relations that provide more seduction and intense emotional intimacy than is encountered in reality.
What makes it porn is the element that, if you expect your partner to provide what you watched in either form of pornography, you would more than likely be placing an unrealistic expectation on the relationship that only leads to disappointment.
And honestly, guy porn is less demanding in the respect that being enthusiastically lustful is an easier bar to reach than being a Pirate/Nobleman/etc… that is emotionally aware enough to provide the proper level of ravishment.
Twitter: youshouldknowca
says:
She say's romance, he's says porn: http://is.gd/dp8vl
Twitter: tsquest
says:
Wow. Yet again you leave me thinking of things a little differently than before.
Very true, Kat.
T´s last [type] ..Firsts- for me- in Mexico
One problem I have is the question of who the characters are.
Romance novels: men are impossibly powerful figures with dark pasts. Women are of the everyday variety so the reader can identify.
Visual porn: men are of the everyday variety (the plumber coming to fix the pipes) and women are too (the bored housewife).
Romance novels: women are imbued with the magical ability to heal his heart and make him love again. She will change his dangerous ways and make him give up that mysterious life to spend the rest of it with her.
Visual porn: women are imbued with a magical and very mythical characteristic called ‘The Matching Libido.’* Sex is actually pleasurable to the women, and like free money, if it is offered no strings, it’s eagerly accepted.
(*I know. You’re female and you have this. Please realize that you’re a statistical outlier.)
Romance novels: men are imbued with ‘dangerous’ characteristics and risk everything. All the time. The instinctively know the odds, they read minds, and everything they do is hopelessly romantic. They’re hardhearted to everyone but tenderhearted to her at the last moment.
Visual porn: men have enormous sex organs, and can satisfy the woman’s insatiable desires — all one or two of them, because all she wants is rock-hard c?ck. There’s no cleaning out the garage or arguing about taking the kids to Timmy’s birthday party instead of heading out for a Poker game on Saturday afternoon.
etc etc.
To men, visual porn is a fantasy. Most of us know we don’t have a rock hard sixpack on our abdomens and few of us have anything over 7 inches between our legs. This fantasy world evaporates as soon as we see ourselves in the bathroom mirror. I hope that women see romance novels the same way, but romance novels construct an entire fictive world. Visual porn only creates a world where women actually want to have sex.** If visual porn’s hook were simply hardbodied women, then amateur porn wouldn’t sell… but it DOES. The fantasy is NOT about the sculpted bodies and implants. It’s about the real, carnal desire that doesn’t exist in the real world.
**Yep. I know. You’re female and are hornier than most men. If that were true, your boyfriend/husband wouldn’t ever watch porn.
A lot of women hate visual porn because they imagine they have to compete with the women’s BODIES. They DON’T. What men want them to compete with is the fictional LIBIDOS in the films.
Twitter: youshouldknowca
says:
Romance novels — porn for women? http://katwilder.com/?p=2044
Kat, you salty, sexxy, salient one, I love this topic. Here’s my two cents:
Q: Guys, do you worry about romance novels the way women worry about porn? A: No. That’s it…well, OK that’s not it, but it took a fraction of a microsecond for me to know my answer. I’d love it if my significant other got a little steamy over some written words…alas the starter motor is disconnected. I know she’s made it clear that “I hate porn”. So we don’t discuss either. No secret that men are graphically driven and women are relationship driven. You, my dear, are the succulent exception to the women hate porn and adore romance novels stereotype. Though I’ve been in some somewhat pornographic relationships with women in the extremely distant past–we simply didn’t have the technology to support it, then. I admit to wondering, lately, what that might have looked like with a HD camcorder. I could have been arrested by sending the super-8 to the lab
I also can relate that I have never purchased either romance tomes or porn. Since there is a cornucopia of free viewable porn on the interwebs and virtually no bodice rippers that I know of–you know the genre “women” like to read.
You didn’t ask if men thought women were unduly influenced by their intake of romance novels and whether men thought women would draw unfavorable comparisons to their relationships with their men…but if asked I would not think women would measure the fictional men against their mate/lovers any more than men compare themselves against pornstar men with any seriousness. Not any more than I measure my looks against Leo DiCaprio or (in my pre-geriatric case…Tom Selleck)say James Woods.
How about a combo. My question to you. You enjoy porn…sounds like the commercial, dramatic kind. How do you like the more romantic type–the porn with at least a recognizeable story-line, with kissing and slow undressing and significant male on female oral genital foreplay vs. the cumfest and analization that characterizes the pornstar workout sessions. OK, I’m a romantic and find the “amateur” video footage much more genuine than the studio couch, porn-billionaire foyer shots, non-pro porn is much more to my interest. But some women have made it clear they “like it rough” and I made my choice to go with romance.
Oh, and I’m sticking my little toe into the Blogosphere. And find my admiration for blogger like you and many of your followers growing. Cheers! T.O. aka W.D.
I tried to read a Harlequin romance once–a friend kept egging me on, and I did it for the irony, if you see what I mean–and I just couldn’t get more than about 10-12 pages.
With the possible more recent exception of this Twilight garbage, I have never read anything more jejeune, trite, cliche’d, piss-poorly written, utterly intellect-insulting,…,yeah I could go on.
So to answer your question: No. I couldn’t possibly waste energy and time worrying about such completely useless junk.
I know who I am, and I’d like to think that that individual is worth a little more than that which caters to some idiotic teenage fantasy that isn’t even remotely original.
Dan´s last [type] ..It Makes Me Smile
Twitter: dadshouseblog
says:
I think you have unrealistic expectations about romance, and you shouldn’t be so hard on yourself regarding your body. Not all men want a woman with big boobs. There is no one perfect female body that all men drool over. Maybe we don’t worry about the romance novels because we aren’t so caught up in wanting a perfect bodied woman. When I have a girlfriend I really like, I want to be with her. Period.
dadshouse´s last [type] ..My Man Cave Weekend
Twitter: youshouldknowca
says:
I have often made the same argument….to no avail. http://bit.ly/9koz1y
Twitter: KatWilder
says:
Blatantly Obvious — Yes, well, we carry on with life, too. Just with a few more mental pitstops …
Lifebeginsat30ty — It isn’t so much about romance’s sex scenes; it’s more, as you say, about unrealistic expectations, whether porn or in the novels. Understanding it’s fantasy is important … for both sexes.
Jim — I don’t think either “demeans” men/women, unless you think showing on film what some people might be fantasizing about is demeaning. If we think of “demeaning” scenarios, aren’t we ourselves doing the demeaning, just privately inside our heads?
Brian — No argument from me on that.
Edgar — Yeah, I prefer my own bosoms heaving. As for Ms. Nin, she did stir this young woman’s, uh, juices …
Smitty — Yes, it easier/less demanding to be lustful than to be whatever a romance novel would have a man be; I never quite thought of it that way.
T — I’m just trying to get the world to think like I do so I won’t have to deal with so much BS!
This American Life had an interesting segment on what it takes to be a romance writer ( http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/247/What-Is-This-Thing ) some time ago. Just like visual porn on the internet, it’s apparently **very easy** to get published. And probably just as difficult to actually make money at it.
Twitter: KatWilder
says:
Ted — A lot of women hate visual porn because they imagine they have to compete with the women’s BODIES. They DON’T. What men want them to compete with is the fictional LIBIDOS in the films. Couldn’t have said it better myself!!
Observer — I rarely watch porn long enough to worry about where the “story line” is going, if there is one. The slow build up is fine, but usually those are so full of cliches, I start to laugh. I’d rather watch a non-porn film that deals with sex/love/romance. I do think some people do measure their mates against the women/men in porn/romance, perhaps subconsciously. Still, the bigger problem is with women getting tweaked by the look/actions of porn stars, instead of, as Ted says, understanding what’s really the attraction — a woman who wants sex as much as a man.
Dan — Believe it or not, there’s a certain percentage of men who do read romance novels, at least according to industry studies. Maybe it’s purely for “research” — if we want to understand the other sex, it’s not a bad idea to see what they’re thinking about …
Dads — I hope you’re “you” in your first sentence doesn’t mean me; I am perfectly happy with my body, as imperfect as it is. I do think women obsess over all the imperfections, forgetting that — as long as they’re reasonably fit — their guy just wants her naked. And, with a healthy libido, of course.
There is no shortage of verbiage on dating sites how many guys are missing out because they are waiting for a woman who looks like a porn star.
There is also no shortage of verbiage about women who are alone, “rather than settling” while they wait for “The One”, their Fabio, white knight or whatever to ride into their lives.
Ha. Just saw this article in my RSS reader. Seems to fit the conversation:
1 out 6 women, now addicted to porn
http://www.idigbig.com/cc-common/mainheadlines3.html?feed=266849&article=7346418
Twitter: mobilene
says:
Kat, good point, whether someone is demeaned or not can very often be a matter of the perception of the onlooker.
jim´s last [type] ..Clattering over the old wooden bridge
Twitter: youshouldknowca
says:
Is #porn demeaning if it depicts what we're thinking about? http://katwilder.com/?p=2044
I’ve read a few romance novels, for instance while stuck somewhere in a motel with a limited selection of books in the bookshop. Quality varies immensely from book to book, of course. One thing I’ve noticed is how important *family connections* frequently turn out to be: the poor but noble hero turns out to actually be Lord Somebody, and/or the orphan girl who is the heroine turns out to have aristocratic connections of which she had been totally unaware. Not sure how much of this is about an attempt to be historically accurate versus something psychologically interesting.
I think there are alot of differences for treating them differently. I agree one is that a woman will worry the guy will expect the woman to do certain things maybe she doesn’t want to do, while guys just don’t really care if they aren’t as sensitive as a guy in the book. But there is also:
-The mechanics of how each is consumed. Looking at a woman read a book, and looking at a book without pictures, doesn’t look like much. But watching a guy watch porn is a bit, I dunno, gross?
-The legit feminist critique that alot of porn “actors” do it because they were probably sexually abused as children etc. Not all, but many. Some women, and men as well, don’t appreciate supporting that kind of industry. Whereas no one is exploited in making a book. Makes me wonder- there should be a “no exploitation” certification for porn actors like there is for free range chickens . . .
“Dan — Believe it or not, there’s a certain percentage of men who do read romance novels, at least according to industry studies. Maybe it’s purely for “research” — if we want to understand the other sex, it’s not a bad idea to see what they’re thinking about …:
If their thinking of us is informed by pie-in-the-sky crud like this, then I am damned glad I never married!
Dan´s last [type] ..It Makes Me Smile